The dampening thing with us dropping all these points is that the PSG and Liverpool become must win games. Some of the commenter's had us believing that the bournemouth game can be a throw away. Can't believe we are bottling it hard again. We really aren't no better than Spurs at the moment. Even utd might end up with a trophy.
By the way Pedro, IF Arsenal win in Paris and then in Munich, I will joyfully accept a large amount of humble pie and be over the moon about being proved wrong!
We're all on the same page when it comes to Arsenal winning.
Over the moon but thats a big If and living in reality we are going to be served some bottled up Pie the way the season is unraveling. All teams are on a momentum except for us. We look knackered and crawling to the finish line.
About to be 6 seasons in and still doesn't know how to rotate properly and in game management still a bit of a mess, let's hope Wednesday is a good night for the club
Gittens body looks 70% legs. Top class reach, quick dribbling ability, pace and power. On course to become a monster. Would welcome him with arms wide open.
Arteta does not just need to rotate, he needs an adjustment to the whole system balance. You can't ask all your attacking players and attacking midfielders to defend like demons just as much as they attack. You have to have at least 2 players who are not asked to run up and down the pitch making 50 and 60 yard sprints all the time if you want to maintain a balanced open play attack and not have injuries all the time. I also believe this is also why we give up goals on low amounts of chances. Our defense relies on our attackers defending a little too much. A bad turnover and that midfielder is not in his gap. or does not have the energy to get back into his gap. Also why I think we fade every season in the last 2 or 3 months.
It's admirable that Martinelli, Saka, Havertz, Ode and Merino and Rice can do it but I fully believe that the amount of injuries we have and the wild fluctuations in form have a lot to do with this. Having a 9 that plays as a 9. And perhaps an attacking mid that is not asked to drop deep, track late runners, advance the ball, lead the press from the front and be available to every counter attack the whole game is not the way to go. Klopp learned this, when he had to dial back the "Rock and Roll" Gegen- Pressing. Slot realized Mo Salah needs to do what he does which is attack at pace not sprint up and down the wing like Saka and Marti tracking fullback runners. It doesn't have to be a huge adjustment but their needs to be some strategic thinking on it this summer.
I don't think it's all player personnel issues like replacing one attacking mid or winger for another if we are asking them to do the same things.
Even Pep has moved on from the Gegen pressing style. Slot, Klopp too. Mike seems to not realize that chapter is now closed.
I do think he secretly admires Atletico, and Simeone. He wants us to be the pre m version of that. Hard to beat. thats it.
Beasting his players to all play defense all game. Press press press is a system issue. Sure we need better players all the time but as some have pointed out, its this rigid system that prevents goals that hurts us.
Yes, Arteta reminds me of Simeone but Simeone has always shown flexibility. When Diego Costa was there, he was not provided defensive duties (apart from set pieces) and atm Griezman is his talisman and has creative freedom, he doesn't need to track back and press like ode has to do. Also, he prefers having a striker in the striker role and not a CM.
Simeone s philosophy is more simple, have most of the team defend and run like crazy, but the main attacking threats get less of those defensive duties to be dangerous in attack.
For me the balance is just slightly off. Few tweaks: add a 9 who can hold the ball up and bring a winger into the attack. Don't ask our wingers to run as much in defensive positions by keeping our fullbacks home more not as inverted. Don't ask whomever our attacking mid is..next season ( I think it will be Odegaard) to trigger the forward press and advance the ball all the time from deeper positions. Over the course of season it all adds up when your trying to win every match.
All that said ... if we win the Champions League this season. Nothing else matters. I won't care. Lol.. I'm fickle like that.
The Areta out thing doesn't matter in the least bit. The kroenekes aren't firing him at the end of this season. So better make your peace with that even if you think he isn't good enough. People can discuss it but it doesn't matter at least to the end of next season.
There is context to everything.
He has done well to take us from where we were to now, absolutely. You will only have to look at what Chelsea, United, Spurs have spent since he has been here. I know he hasn't won the few carabao and Fa cups but we are in a much better place than them. Money spent hasn't guaranteed success.
Has he been making the same rotation and stupid decisions in crucial times of the season, Yes. Absolutely. Probably the reason we haven't gotten over the line yet.
Is he a crap manger like some of these fans are saying. No. He is a very good manager who hasn't gotten over the line yet.
But does getting over the line matter. Yes absolutely. Competing can be positive for so long. You need to win. Otherwise it will be a pochettino thing.
Now from all this context, winning the UCL is as important than ever. Not just for him, but for fans, for the belief of our players and the possibility of success next season.
Win and fans are buzzing and will comeback with renewed hope of getting the PL next season. Lose on Wednesday, coupled with a shambolic run in the PL that made it look like we have downed tools, he is looking at a divided fanbase and pressure beyond measure at the start of next season. There will be no excuses. Fans will want him out if he doesn't deliver. 30 to 40% do even now. That is the pressure on Wednesday and the possible final.
Just appointing a rookie and keeping him on into a sixth year after one FA Cup before he splurged the best part of a £billion to buy his own nearly men sends out the same message that Arsenal have always sent out. That they are still obsessed with buying Chelsea rejects, occasionally City's too, but are not ruthless enough to be taken seriously, or considered good enough to be regarded as long term serial contenders.
The Arsenal hierarchy are more than comfortable with not winning, although CL qualification is almost cause for an open-top bus.
We are very similar in club size to Liverpool, but the attitude in football terms is night and day.
They left us behind as long ago as the 1970s and we'll never catch up.
Lol you ranted a lot. But did you forget that we were 5 years out of the UCL? And we pulled about 2 or 3 fa cups before that. This is the criticism I can't understand.
There is context to it. There are other teams there as well, and their fans feel they should do a lot better than they are doing too. Chelsea, Man United fans have felt they should be winning everything too.
I can understand if someone thinks Arteta has taken us as far as he can. That is fair. But thinking he hasn't done a good job to get us to where we are (which is in a position to compete for the biggest trophies) and hasn't built a squad that another manager can use to try and win is complete lack of context for me.
If I was ranting that would have been typed in capitals.
It's as much about the cultural mentality around the club.
Liverpool have just won their 20th title - only their second in 35 years - but seven ahead of Arsenal, and most knowledgeable football pundits would predict they win their 21st before Arsenal get their 14th. United have 20 titles as well as multiple CL, Chelsea are monsters in Europe.
Arsenal are the side most other European giants love to be drawn against.
There are a few English clubs that strike fear across world football, Arsenal have never been that club.
Arsenal are more in the Everton territory than the Liverpool United and Chelsea areas.
We have always had a soft under-belly which has been easily breached going back a long long time.
Mike wins the CL and he can write his ticket to any other top team. He can ensure a club history that cannot be erased if he wins that, bar all his other shortcomings.
Playing an entire first team was stupid days before one of the clubs biggest matches.
I hope we can do it. Not sure how but still hoping we can do it.
I hope so too bro. If we clear that hurdle I am pretty confident we will start to clear big trophies again and again. But getting nothing over the line has become a problem.
Have you the slightest idea of who Cruyff was and what he achieved in football? Nah, thought not. That is so silly, you expect us to take your other views seriously?
Compare someone closer to home - just have a look at the stats and remind yourself what Wenger achieved in his first five years. Never mind the long slow decline, Arteta is nowhere near even that level.
Or compare the other managers left in the CL, all of whom rested their first teams. For the very obvious reason that if the games are tight, then extra time will be absolutely critical. So we hammer our players and hope they can scrape through? Yes, top level genius that. And what did we achieve by playing our first team? Absolutely nothing. Inter and Barcelona both won, even with their second teams, PSG lost, but rested their first team. Who is smarter, and recognises the demands of their upcoming games?
This cult of Arteta is the reason it is hard to take you seriously. As usual you piss on the fans who apparently don't know anything, then give us a lecture from your American sports psychology books about 'elite' levels. As if you know the players minds, having spoken to, er, none of them.
Or maybe ChatGPT wrote this article based on the well established repetitive arguments and outlandish claims.
Watching the ‘ girlies’ here @ Brighton.well f** k me ,it’s like watching the female ghost of Almunia here.Zinsberger.Absolute disaster.If by some querk of fate she appears in women’s CL final,they may as well not even board the bus.A mare.
Arsenal and Borussia Dortmund are in serious talks for Jamie Gittens.
Arsenal have overtaken Chelsea in the race for the promising winger.
Dortmund want between €50m-60m to sell him.
Chump change for a top talent. Reading, Chavs and Man City youth. A London lad. 20 yo and making huge strides, constantly developing and becoming better and better. Make it happen!
Sancho, I believe, is more of a technical wide playmaker, creative but also kind of slow and not much of a goal scorer, not a direct threat, probably better at unlocking deep defences while Gittens is more of a pacey, direct, explosive threat type of a dribbling winger.
If we compare their physicality, Gittens is head and shoulders above Sancho. Technique in tight spaces - Sancho absolutely. The big difference should be - mentality, as that's what probably stopped Sancho from becoming a bigger player.
Barcola would be one of the other options high up there and I'd say Gittens is quite similar.
Cesc Fabregas is an interesting one for sure. Big Arsenal connection, fans still love him and you always knew he was going to be a good manager. Lad got Como promotion and sitting comfortably in mid table in serie A playing good football. No surprise that Leipzig and others are looking at him to take over their teams
Oh he's doing a miracle job quite alright, that's the way it's seen over here, already been touted for the Milan job as well or Napoli if Conte goes to Milan. Look at the names of players in ha squad and the football they play and he sure is performing a miracle same as Viera has done since joing Genoa as well
You're making an absolutely brilliant argument for how Mikel Arteta isn't exceptional whatsoever and Arsenals recent improvements are down to a high level of investment. Thanks Rap I finally agree with you
The point was one person spending that much money, not how much clubs like Utd and Chelsea have spent over 5 years with different managers! Stop twisting words to suit your agenda.
intersting. rap tries to contextualize Arsenal’s situation while you act like we are living in some kind of bubble. there are things you can argue for and against arteta - what nobody should do is decline an improvement we have obviously seen in the last 2-3 years. arteta made us a very good team - can he get us back to glory? probably yes, but I for one acknowledge what he did until now. he brought back the believe we can challenge for big titles - which I haven’t had for the previous 10 years
Plus you're going to make me say it but 5 years and nearly a billion spent with nothing to show for it outside of being able to say that we finished 2nd and bottled 3 league titles in a row is hardly the impressive feat people think it is. I mean you could probably give David Moyes that much money and he'd probably bottle a few championships as well.
Just an FYI it's possible that you see the likes of Xabi Alonso, Iraola, Marco Silva, Glasner, Cesc Fabregas and Xavi take up new manager jobs this summer. Some interesting candidates for sure
We are literally given as an example every time they talk about Man United or Chelsea about coming back to the top clubs after a few problematic years. How sacking managers every year isn't good for the future of the team and how the Arsenal ownership gave time to Arteta and we are now in a better position than we've been in 20 years.
Pundits, commentators, everyone has talked about the idea of supporting a manager, supply them with time and money to realize their vision and not give them their P45s at the first sight of trouble. We are given as a good example all the time. But we've got some people here asking to show receipt if any fan would want Arteta as their manager.
I'll just post our finishes in the PL over the last 20 years.
2005–06 67 4th
2006–07 68 4th
2007–08 83 3rd
2008–09 72 4th
2009–10 75 3rd
2010–11 68 4th
2011–12 70 3rd
2012–13 73 4th
2013–14 79 4th
2014–15 75 3rd
2015–16 71 2nd
2016–17 75 5th
2017–18 63 6th
2018–19 70 5th
2019–20 56 8th
2020–21 61 8th
2021–22 69 5th
2022–23 84 2nd
2023–24 89 2nd
2024–25 67 2nd * (3 games to go)
So what's that:
- 3x over 80 points, once 17 years ago and two times in the last 2 seasons
- 3x confirmed 2nd place, once in the Leicester year on 71 pts and in the last 2 seasons
Looking just at the league, our best two seasons points wise over the course of the last 20 years, have been the last 2 seasons. We haven't won the title since 2003-04. So let's sack the manager who brought us 5 and 2 points away from doing something we haven't been even close to in over 2 decades.
Let me tell you, we've been a single digit away from the champion of the league just 3 times - once in 2013-14 and twice in the last 2 seasons.
How a team performs in the league over the last couple of seasons is the main way to judge the quality of a team. We are there. We have been performing at a similar level to the top clubs like City, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Pool, PSG. We've got no trophies to show for it but looking at the journey we've been through, it's expected.
Based on that, this season is realistically the first where we should have hoped of winning a trophy cause we are realistically good enough to do so. We haven't and it's disappointing. This season we can be realistically disappointed of not winning a trophy. Isn't that still progress?
We belong to the top, we just need that extra oomph of luck and quality to get it over the line but we are there. Let's not ruin the current situation, let's demand yes, but let's not ruin. I doubt spuds are happy the kicked the manager who had them among the best teams in Europe even if he didn't bring them anything. Are they better now? Hell no.
I'm not asking to be happy we've won nothing, be disappointed as I am (if we lose to PSG that is). But support what our club has managed to achieve over the last 5 years. We are in the best position as a club and in terms of the quality of our players, than in 20 years. Demand but also support it. We are so close.
Interesting stats up there, very interesting but the main one, the one that matters is that he's going on six years without winning any trophy, that's all sports in general is all about and it's okay for people to ask serious questions.
We're not a charity club, we mustn't always keep managers for 10years out of loyalty or because they've " come close", would be nice for the club to have some ambition beyond just being competitive, we're not a Palace or Fulham or Brighton
You keep moaning about Odegaard [rightfully so] but then you're joined at the hip with the manager who's blind to his failings and can't stop playing him at the expense of the team.
"My only concern is Arteta’s loyalty to a certain player who has reached his peak, will not develop further, and no longer meets the requirements for the next phase we’re striving to reach. Any other player who isn’t up to par will be benched and contribute as a squad player. Not him. You don’t demote a captain to a squad player at their peak age. That’s not how it works. Think about it, that doesn’t work in any profession. The guy either gets sacked or they leave on their own. The right move is to sell the player and move forward. I said it 12 months ago and people laughed. But it has to happen to reach the next level."
From earlier today. One decision that will define Arteta's tenure. And he's already a bit late.
Either sell and buy, don't sell but bring top tier competition (there are so many quality AMs right now) or don't sell but start Nwaneri in at least half the PL games next season in his favorite AM position.
Three not that hard solutions to fix a problem of monumental significance.
I would clearly go with option one but as long as his influence is lowered by a significant amount, we should be able to make the leap.
First off he's a bum and this season has proved it. Secondly the first sign of trouble came and went a dozen times during his first 18-24 months and it's 5+ years and 800 million spent now and you're making it sound like it's ludicrous to question him.
I'm making it sound that we're in our best period league wise in 20 years time. Two and five points away from winning the title (some might say ref mistakes cost us).
Let's sack a manager who would have won the title if the Newcastle goal was disallowed or we got the obvious penalty on Jesus against Villa.
That was the margin between winning the league for the first time in 20 years and not. Just one of the two decisions.
We were that close but you call him a bum? You think the difference between being an all time legend and a bum is one result/decision?
Funny how the ref conspirators were mouse quiet vs Real Madrid when literally every big decision was going our way.
And is this new re being screwed by refs? Was it not a common theme under Wenger? 2007/08 we were robbed blind in multiple crucial games, easily could have won the double like Utd did but nobody cares or remembers.
I really care and remember about my own. That is the whole point of a fan.
Even the Madrid game, we deserved it. So it didn't matter.
It is the same for Liverpool. They deserved it and it didn't matter.
But for us, it does matter in the context of how we are refereed. I am not in the camp of Rap saying we would have won the league if those decisions were fair. I am just saying it matters on the point if the points we have accumulated.
You know nothing about what I watch Rap, pretty pathetic the way you're going on today.
I'm just very fed-up as any genuine Gooner would be of how bad we've looked domestically this season.
You're too busy sucking the fat out of Tet's arsecrack to see the wood for the trees and you hide behind ref conspiracy and injuries. Something you mocked in the Wenger era and even early on with Arteta.
I don't recall you being an Arteta fan boy until around a year ago. What happened?
Couldn’t give a f ** k if everyone hate us.whats new? No one likes us we don’t care.They will look under every rock & stone to slate us.Always have.Always will.They even look to undermine the ‘ invincibles’ or argue the toss about whether TH14 is actually th3 greates prem player ever.It wouldn’t matter if we were holier than thou.So forget about trying to please the c** ts.It will NEVER happen.
Keep only posting and being involved when we play in the Champions League.
I'm not so sure you watch most of our domestic league games so I doubt you are highly knowledgeable in the decisions we've had to face especially this season and how different we've been refereed compared to other clubs.
I respect you but it's quite disrespectful saying I'm part of the problem. I feel like I'm talking to a Liverpool fan.
Objectively we've lost about 10 points this season due to shambolic decisions while Pool have gained a substantial help but if you think that's fine then sure. I'm part of the problem.
One decision...fuck off with that shite. He's a bum because the footballs shit, the results are shit and even after 800 million he's barely better than Emery. With the level of investment he's had and the influence he was given you'd expect a little bit more than playing like Bolton Wanderers and shit substitutions after 5 years
Oh he's absolutely a bum. You know why I say that? Because I watched Arsenal this season. The previous season much like the Real Madrid tie seem to be more anomalies and exceptions rather common place.
The dampening thing with us dropping all these points is that the PSG and Liverpool become must win games. Some of the commenter's had us believing that the bournemouth game can be a throw away. Can't believe we are bottling it hard again. We really aren't no better than Spurs at the moment. Even utd might end up with a trophy.
By the way Pedro, IF Arsenal win in Paris and then in Munich, I will joyfully accept a large amount of humble pie and be over the moon about being proved wrong!
We're all on the same page when it comes to Arsenal winning.
Over the moon but thats a big If and living in reality we are going to be served some bottled up Pie the way the season is unraveling. All teams are on a momentum except for us. We look knackered and crawling to the finish line.
About to be 6 seasons in and still doesn't know how to rotate properly and in game management still a bit of a mess, let's hope Wednesday is a good night for the club
Jorginho goes to Flamingo on a free.
https://x.com/carterslime8/status/1871587096550629746
Gittens body looks 70% legs. Top class reach, quick dribbling ability, pace and power. On course to become a monster. Would welcome him with arms wide open.
This link feels a bit agent driven?
But he looks a better player with better decision making, compared to Nico Williams.
Nico seems to me like he'd struggle against deep blocks and would be better in a counter attacking team. Martinelli MK II
Arteta does not just need to rotate, he needs an adjustment to the whole system balance. You can't ask all your attacking players and attacking midfielders to defend like demons just as much as they attack. You have to have at least 2 players who are not asked to run up and down the pitch making 50 and 60 yard sprints all the time if you want to maintain a balanced open play attack and not have injuries all the time. I also believe this is also why we give up goals on low amounts of chances. Our defense relies on our attackers defending a little too much. A bad turnover and that midfielder is not in his gap. or does not have the energy to get back into his gap. Also why I think we fade every season in the last 2 or 3 months.
It's admirable that Martinelli, Saka, Havertz, Ode and Merino and Rice can do it but I fully believe that the amount of injuries we have and the wild fluctuations in form have a lot to do with this. Having a 9 that plays as a 9. And perhaps an attacking mid that is not asked to drop deep, track late runners, advance the ball, lead the press from the front and be available to every counter attack the whole game is not the way to go. Klopp learned this, when he had to dial back the "Rock and Roll" Gegen- Pressing. Slot realized Mo Salah needs to do what he does which is attack at pace not sprint up and down the wing like Saka and Marti tracking fullback runners. It doesn't have to be a huge adjustment but their needs to be some strategic thinking on it this summer.
I don't think it's all player personnel issues like replacing one attacking mid or winger for another if we are asking them to do the same things.
Fully agree. Keep 2 players High up the pitch like pool do and then break at pace
Mid- take a bow. Spot on.
Even Pep has moved on from the Gegen pressing style. Slot, Klopp too. Mike seems to not realize that chapter is now closed.
I do think he secretly admires Atletico, and Simeone. He wants us to be the pre m version of that. Hard to beat. thats it.
Beasting his players to all play defense all game. Press press press is a system issue. Sure we need better players all the time but as some have pointed out, its this rigid system that prevents goals that hurts us.
Yes, Arteta reminds me of Simeone but Simeone has always shown flexibility. When Diego Costa was there, he was not provided defensive duties (apart from set pieces) and atm Griezman is his talisman and has creative freedom, he doesn't need to track back and press like ode has to do. Also, he prefers having a striker in the striker role and not a CM.
Simeone s philosophy is more simple, have most of the team defend and run like crazy, but the main attacking threats get less of those defensive duties to be dangerous in attack.
For me the balance is just slightly off. Few tweaks: add a 9 who can hold the ball up and bring a winger into the attack. Don't ask our wingers to run as much in defensive positions by keeping our fullbacks home more not as inverted. Don't ask whomever our attacking mid is..next season ( I think it will be Odegaard) to trigger the forward press and advance the ball all the time from deeper positions. Over the course of season it all adds up when your trying to win every match.
All that said ... if we win the Champions League this season. Nothing else matters. I won't care. Lol.. I'm fickle like that.
"Also why I think we fade every season in the last 2 or 3 months."
16 wins, 1 draw (City), 1 loss (Villa) in our last 18 games last season.
Yep and all with Odegaard starting.
HandofArsenal
Both Jorginho and Timber to be assessed tomorrow ahead of the game against PSG.
Final decision to be taken tomorrow but there is optimism.
The Areta out thing doesn't matter in the least bit. The kroenekes aren't firing him at the end of this season. So better make your peace with that even if you think he isn't good enough. People can discuss it but it doesn't matter at least to the end of next season.
There is context to everything.
He has done well to take us from where we were to now, absolutely. You will only have to look at what Chelsea, United, Spurs have spent since he has been here. I know he hasn't won the few carabao and Fa cups but we are in a much better place than them. Money spent hasn't guaranteed success.
Has he been making the same rotation and stupid decisions in crucial times of the season, Yes. Absolutely. Probably the reason we haven't gotten over the line yet.
Is he a crap manger like some of these fans are saying. No. He is a very good manager who hasn't gotten over the line yet.
But does getting over the line matter. Yes absolutely. Competing can be positive for so long. You need to win. Otherwise it will be a pochettino thing.
Now from all this context, winning the UCL is as important than ever. Not just for him, but for fans, for the belief of our players and the possibility of success next season.
Win and fans are buzzing and will comeback with renewed hope of getting the PL next season. Lose on Wednesday, coupled with a shambolic run in the PL that made it look like we have downed tools, he is looking at a divided fanbase and pressure beyond measure at the start of next season. There will be no excuses. Fans will want him out if he doesn't deliver. 30 to 40% do even now. That is the pressure on Wednesday and the possible final.
Just appointing a rookie and keeping him on into a sixth year after one FA Cup before he splurged the best part of a £billion to buy his own nearly men sends out the same message that Arsenal have always sent out. That they are still obsessed with buying Chelsea rejects, occasionally City's too, but are not ruthless enough to be taken seriously, or considered good enough to be regarded as long term serial contenders.
The Arsenal hierarchy are more than comfortable with not winning, although CL qualification is almost cause for an open-top bus.
We are very similar in club size to Liverpool, but the attitude in football terms is night and day.
They left us behind as long ago as the 1970s and we'll never catch up.
They won their first Premiership title when?
2020 as you know, but even before that they were five titles ahead of Arsenal, because believe it or not, football started a century before the PL.
And they pushed City a lot more than Arsenal did.
Grow a spine and accept the club's failing to exercise your footballing demons.
It's incredibly liberating, it releases all the negative energy and allows you to go into the next match free from stress.
"Exorcise!
Lol you ranted a lot. But did you forget that we were 5 years out of the UCL? And we pulled about 2 or 3 fa cups before that. This is the criticism I can't understand.
There is context to it. There are other teams there as well, and their fans feel they should do a lot better than they are doing too. Chelsea, Man United fans have felt they should be winning everything too.
I can understand if someone thinks Arteta has taken us as far as he can. That is fair. But thinking he hasn't done a good job to get us to where we are (which is in a position to compete for the biggest trophies) and hasn't built a squad that another manager can use to try and win is complete lack of context for me.
If I was ranting that would have been typed in capitals.
It's as much about the cultural mentality around the club.
Liverpool have just won their 20th title - only their second in 35 years - but seven ahead of Arsenal, and most knowledgeable football pundits would predict they win their 21st before Arsenal get their 14th. United have 20 titles as well as multiple CL, Chelsea are monsters in Europe.
Arsenal are the side most other European giants love to be drawn against.
There are a few English clubs that strike fear across world football, Arsenal have never been that club.
Arsenal are more in the Everton territory than the Liverpool United and Chelsea areas.
We have always had a soft under-belly which has been easily breached going back a long long time.
Arteta hasn't fixed that.
Real Madrid…..?
Bayern Munich....?
We can all play silly oneupmanship, where has our record against Real Madrid taken us, anywhere significant?
Read the comment properly, it says 'MOST' not 'ALL' .
Every time we've played another English team in European competition we've lost. Explain that.
Mike wins the CL and he can write his ticket to any other top team. He can ensure a club history that cannot be erased if he wins that, bar all his other shortcomings.
Playing an entire first team was stupid days before one of the clubs biggest matches.
I hope we can do it. Not sure how but still hoping we can do it.
I hope so too bro. If we clear that hurdle I am pretty confident we will start to clear big trophies again and again. But getting nothing over the line has become a problem.
Have you the slightest idea of who Cruyff was and what he achieved in football? Nah, thought not. That is so silly, you expect us to take your other views seriously?
Compare someone closer to home - just have a look at the stats and remind yourself what Wenger achieved in his first five years. Never mind the long slow decline, Arteta is nowhere near even that level.
Or compare the other managers left in the CL, all of whom rested their first teams. For the very obvious reason that if the games are tight, then extra time will be absolutely critical. So we hammer our players and hope they can scrape through? Yes, top level genius that. And what did we achieve by playing our first team? Absolutely nothing. Inter and Barcelona both won, even with their second teams, PSG lost, but rested their first team. Who is smarter, and recognises the demands of their upcoming games?
This cult of Arteta is the reason it is hard to take you seriously. As usual you piss on the fans who apparently don't know anything, then give us a lecture from your American sports psychology books about 'elite' levels. As if you know the players minds, having spoken to, er, none of them.
Or maybe ChatGPT wrote this article based on the well established repetitive arguments and outlandish claims.
Watching the ‘ girlies’ here @ Brighton.well f** k me ,it’s like watching the female ghost of Almunia here.Zinsberger.Absolute disaster.If by some querk of fate she appears in women’s CL final,they may as well not even board the bus.A mare.
PGMOL has nothing to do with an open play xG thats worse than Liverpool, Chelsea, Man c, Newcastle, Bournemouth in 2024/25
Arsenal and Borussia Dortmund are in serious talks for Jamie Gittens.
Arsenal have overtaken Chelsea in the race for the promising winger.
Dortmund want between €50m-60m to sell him.
Chump change for a top talent. Reading, Chavs and Man City youth. A London lad. 20 yo and making huge strides, constantly developing and becoming better and better. Make it happen!
Is he really all that or is this another Sancho
Sancho, I believe, is more of a technical wide playmaker, creative but also kind of slow and not much of a goal scorer, not a direct threat, probably better at unlocking deep defences while Gittens is more of a pacey, direct, explosive threat type of a dribbling winger.
If we compare their physicality, Gittens is head and shoulders above Sancho. Technique in tight spaces - Sancho absolutely. The big difference should be - mentality, as that's what probably stopped Sancho from becoming a bigger player.
Barcola would be one of the other options high up there and I'd say Gittens is quite similar.
Cesc Fabregas is an interesting one for sure. Big Arsenal connection, fans still love him and you always knew he was going to be a good manager. Lad got Como promotion and sitting comfortably in mid table in serie A playing good football. No surprise that Leipzig and others are looking at him to take over their teams
According to capology, Como pay the 10th highest in Italian football.
They pay (38m) exactly 2x as much as Lecce (19m) and Hellas Verona (19m) and about 1/3 more than another 5 clubs (24-26m).
Como are owned by the Hartono brothers, ranked in 2024 as the richest men in Italy and in top 70 of the richest men in the world.
Who would have thought that the more money you spend, the higher your chances to climb the ranks.
Clearly Cesc is doing a good job but let's not make it as if he's doing a miracle job out of thin air.
Oh he's doing a miracle job quite alright, that's the way it's seen over here, already been touted for the Milan job as well or Napoli if Conte goes to Milan. Look at the names of players in ha squad and the football they play and he sure is performing a miracle same as Viera has done since joing Genoa as well
You're making an absolutely brilliant argument for how Mikel Arteta isn't exceptional whatsoever and Arsenals recent improvements are down to a high level of investment. Thanks Rap I finally agree with you
Yes, we should be behind Chavs, City and Manure so 4th, except we've been 2nd for probably 3 years now.
The point was one person spending that much money, not how much clubs like Utd and Chelsea have spent over 5 years with different managers! Stop twisting words to suit your agenda.
intersting. rap tries to contextualize Arsenal’s situation while you act like we are living in some kind of bubble. there are things you can argue for and against arteta - what nobody should do is decline an improvement we have obviously seen in the last 2-3 years. arteta made us a very good team - can he get us back to glory? probably yes, but I for one acknowledge what he did until now. he brought back the believe we can challenge for big titles - which I haven’t had for the previous 10 years
Interesting pivot.
Plus you're going to make me say it but 5 years and nearly a billion spent with nothing to show for it outside of being able to say that we finished 2nd and bottled 3 league titles in a row is hardly the impressive feat people think it is. I mean you could probably give David Moyes that much money and he'd probably bottle a few championships as well.
One FA Cup.
Just an FYI it's possible that you see the likes of Xabi Alonso, Iraola, Marco Silva, Glasner, Cesc Fabregas and Xavi take up new manager jobs this summer. Some interesting candidates for sure
Yeah all the shiny new toys.Absolutely no guarantee they’ll be better.Absolutely none.Just ask Spuds,Manure & chavs.Rinse & repeat.
We are literally given as an example every time they talk about Man United or Chelsea about coming back to the top clubs after a few problematic years. How sacking managers every year isn't good for the future of the team and how the Arsenal ownership gave time to Arteta and we are now in a better position than we've been in 20 years.
Pundits, commentators, everyone has talked about the idea of supporting a manager, supply them with time and money to realize their vision and not give them their P45s at the first sight of trouble. We are given as a good example all the time. But we've got some people here asking to show receipt if any fan would want Arteta as their manager.
I'll just post our finishes in the PL over the last 20 years.
2005–06 67 4th
2006–07 68 4th
2007–08 83 3rd
2008–09 72 4th
2009–10 75 3rd
2010–11 68 4th
2011–12 70 3rd
2012–13 73 4th
2013–14 79 4th
2014–15 75 3rd
2015–16 71 2nd
2016–17 75 5th
2017–18 63 6th
2018–19 70 5th
2019–20 56 8th
2020–21 61 8th
2021–22 69 5th
2022–23 84 2nd
2023–24 89 2nd
2024–25 67 2nd * (3 games to go)
So what's that:
- 3x over 80 points, once 17 years ago and two times in the last 2 seasons
- 3x confirmed 2nd place, once in the Leicester year on 71 pts and in the last 2 seasons
Looking just at the league, our best two seasons points wise over the course of the last 20 years, have been the last 2 seasons. We haven't won the title since 2003-04. So let's sack the manager who brought us 5 and 2 points away from doing something we haven't been even close to in over 2 decades.
Let me tell you, we've been a single digit away from the champion of the league just 3 times - once in 2013-14 and twice in the last 2 seasons.
How a team performs in the league over the last couple of seasons is the main way to judge the quality of a team. We are there. We have been performing at a similar level to the top clubs like City, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Pool, PSG. We've got no trophies to show for it but looking at the journey we've been through, it's expected.
Based on that, this season is realistically the first where we should have hoped of winning a trophy cause we are realistically good enough to do so. We haven't and it's disappointing. This season we can be realistically disappointed of not winning a trophy. Isn't that still progress?
We belong to the top, we just need that extra oomph of luck and quality to get it over the line but we are there. Let's not ruin the current situation, let's demand yes, but let's not ruin. I doubt spuds are happy the kicked the manager who had them among the best teams in Europe even if he didn't bring them anything. Are they better now? Hell no.
I'm not asking to be happy we've won nothing, be disappointed as I am (if we lose to PSG that is). But support what our club has managed to achieve over the last 5 years. We are in the best position as a club and in terms of the quality of our players, than in 20 years. Demand but also support it. We are so close.
Interesting stats up there, very interesting but the main one, the one that matters is that he's going on six years without winning any trophy, that's all sports in general is all about and it's okay for people to ask serious questions.
We're not a charity club, we mustn't always keep managers for 10years out of loyalty or because they've " come close", would be nice for the club to have some ambition beyond just being competitive, we're not a Palace or Fulham or Brighton
It might be a flawed argument, but challenging City over the past two seasons with our squad is quite an achievement.
By that logic, a two point deficit could be overcome and even exceeded with just a single player upgrade.
We need to see how this develops. We are far too close to winning major trophies to make the drastic decision of sacking our main man.
You keep moaning about Odegaard [rightfully so] but then you're joined at the hip with the manager who's blind to his failings and can't stop playing him at the expense of the team.
"My only concern is Arteta’s loyalty to a certain player who has reached his peak, will not develop further, and no longer meets the requirements for the next phase we’re striving to reach. Any other player who isn’t up to par will be benched and contribute as a squad player. Not him. You don’t demote a captain to a squad player at their peak age. That’s not how it works. Think about it, that doesn’t work in any profession. The guy either gets sacked or they leave on their own. The right move is to sell the player and move forward. I said it 12 months ago and people laughed. But it has to happen to reach the next level."
From earlier today. One decision that will define Arteta's tenure. And he's already a bit late.
Either sell and buy, don't sell but bring top tier competition (there are so many quality AMs right now) or don't sell but start Nwaneri in at least half the PL games next season in his favorite AM position.
Three not that hard solutions to fix a problem of monumental significance.
I would clearly go with option one but as long as his influence is lowered by a significant amount, we should be able to make the leap.
First off he's a bum and this season has proved it. Secondly the first sign of trouble came and went a dozen times during his first 18-24 months and it's 5+ years and 800 million spent now and you're making it sound like it's ludicrous to question him.
I'm making it sound that we're in our best period league wise in 20 years time. Two and five points away from winning the title (some might say ref mistakes cost us).
Let's sack a manager who would have won the title if the Newcastle goal was disallowed or we got the obvious penalty on Jesus against Villa.
That was the margin between winning the league for the first time in 20 years and not. Just one of the two decisions.
We were that close but you call him a bum? You think the difference between being an all time legend and a bum is one result/decision?
This is why everyone hates us (Gooners)
Embarrassing to be blaming our collapses on refs still
Nah Liverpool deserved it. But our points tally has been affected by refs. That is an undeniable truth.
We should be looking at ourselves a lot more. But thinking that we have been refereed well this season isn't it either.
Funny how the ref conspirators were mouse quiet vs Real Madrid when literally every big decision was going our way.
And is this new re being screwed by refs? Was it not a common theme under Wenger? 2007/08 we were robbed blind in multiple crucial games, easily could have won the double like Utd did but nobody cares or remembers.
I really care and remember about my own. That is the whole point of a fan.
Even the Madrid game, we deserved it. So it didn't matter.
It is the same for Liverpool. They deserved it and it didn't matter.
But for us, it does matter in the context of how we are refereed. I am not in the camp of Rap saying we would have won the league if those decisions were fair. I am just saying it matters on the point if the points we have accumulated.
We care and we remember.
I don't care about what fans of entitled clubs think of me.
Chavs had a mafioso owner.
About 80% of all the PL refs are from North West England - Liverpool and Manchester.
3 refs from the South - Bristol area.
Zero refs from London.
It's as blatant as it can be. It's not new, no one said it was.
Pretty sure WE has been watching more La Liga + obviously the tournament of his heart - the CL.
I doubt his capacity to talk about a league he probably does not follow all that religiously.
You know nothing about what I watch Rap, pretty pathetic the way you're going on today.
I'm just very fed-up as any genuine Gooner would be of how bad we've looked domestically this season.
You're too busy sucking the fat out of Tet's arsecrack to see the wood for the trees and you hide behind ref conspiracy and injuries. Something you mocked in the Wenger era and even early on with Arteta.
I don't recall you being an Arteta fan boy until around a year ago. What happened?
Couldn’t give a f ** k if everyone hate us.whats new? No one likes us we don’t care.They will look under every rock & stone to slate us.Always have.Always will.They even look to undermine the ‘ invincibles’ or argue the toss about whether TH14 is actually th3 greates prem player ever.It wouldn’t matter if we were holier than thou.So forget about trying to please the c** ts.It will NEVER happen.
So yeah.F** k em.Blame the refs as well if need be.We know.
16 wins, 1 draw (against City) and 1 loss (Villa) in the last 18 games last season is a collapse I guess.
Our losses before that:
to Newcastle - refs.
to Villa - refs.
to West Ham and to Fulham - cause no team plays 38 games at a top level.
Collapse and a half.
Keep telling yourself it was because of refs Rap.
You're part of the problem
Keep only posting and being involved when we play in the Champions League.
I'm not so sure you watch most of our domestic league games so I doubt you are highly knowledgeable in the decisions we've had to face especially this season and how different we've been refereed compared to other clubs.
I respect you but it's quite disrespectful saying I'm part of the problem. I feel like I'm talking to a Liverpool fan.
Objectively we've lost about 10 points this season due to shambolic decisions while Pool have gained a substantial help but if you think that's fine then sure. I'm part of the problem.
One decision...fuck off with that shite. He's a bum because the footballs shit, the results are shit and even after 800 million he's barely better than Emery. With the level of investment he's had and the influence he was given you'd expect a little bit more than playing like Bolton Wanderers and shit substitutions after 5 years
Okay.
2023-24 - more goals than in any other season over the last 70+ years (more games played back then)
2023-24 - the second most points in the history of the club (89 compared to Wenger's 90 in 2003/04)
2024-25 - third ever semi final in the Champions League
One point away from The Invincibles.
You call that manager a bum and you compare him to Moyes?
Get your head checked.
Oh he's absolutely a bum. You know why I say that? Because I watched Arsenal this season. The previous season much like the Real Madrid tie seem to be more anomalies and exceptions rather common place.
Yes, he lucked out on two seasons as well when he also achieved 80+ points, by luck.
Two seasons or 76 games in total - all luck.