Anyone going to Park Theatre tonight? I still have the spare ticket if anyone is interested - would be nice to see it used but not looking for any return on it (maybe a beer!)
A win is a win and some will say that's all that counts. But, did the team play with any confidence at all? Does this outfit look like they can stay ahead of City until May? I now fear the worst, but naturally hope we can get over the line. My concern is that Arteta will not allow this team to be more realxed in their play, irrespective of who's in the line up.Thinking that the return of Gabriel and the hardly prolific Havertz will cure all ills is simply being naive and hopeful. For some time now, we've not taken advantage of being ahead and then capitalised. Last season, after scoring, we'd continually go backwards and sideways, fail to get another goal and then concede an equaliser late in the game to draw- has anything changed? Ok, we won 1-0, but as we showed against Sunderland and Villa, you can't always be comfortable that way and stay intact- it's far too hazardous to think we can always hold such a narrow lead as in recent weeks, the last 10/15 minutes of games have been nerve-racking. Even yesterday, against a poor Everton team missing three of their best players, we score and then sit back- why? The eternal backwards and sideways passing, even when in advanced positions, is mind boggling. How to beat the perpetual low block? Has anyone tried passing forward and quicker, or running at the defence- only Saka has licence to do that and by the time he gets the ball, he's invariably outnumbered.Our atatck was toothless yesterday- not only Gyokeres, but Trossard- what did he do? Has he beaten a full back this season? As I have said before, if he does not score or assist, which is not every game, he offers nothing.
Yes, even commentator mentioned Arteta bitching about them lol
That said, it's a probability game. We produced 3 chances and missed... so create more chances and shooting opportunities. All ratios... check out the top scorer table and look at the #shots,%on target and %conversion... our players are way behind
We didn't score and sit back. Trossard and Saka should have scored 100% and Zubimendi hit the most. Off the three Zubimendi's was probably the most difficult as he had a defender sliding in but Trossard and Saka i can't condone. This Narrative of sitting back is not always true. Make a point buddy but be objective rather than click bait
If Gyok wasn't working out, Manager could have brought on Merino, our in form forward. Gabi Jesus is all swagger with generally no actual end product but he does create chaos.
nevertheless we need him to be fit for the season. Chaos can be useful - he will be gone by next season and hopefully we will invest in a new and up and coming CF who will gradually oust Kai and Gyok
My big-picture take on our attacking issues is that, for the first time since the early 1990s under George Graham, Arsenal have a fundamentally defensively minded manager, and that’s going to take some adjusting to.
For all the valid criticisms of Wenger, his talent identification in attacking areas - especially at striker - was arguably a huge reason why he’s one of the most successful managers in the history of English football.
He signed Anelka, Henry, Kanu, Van Persie, Sánchez, Giroud and Aubameyang. That’s an extraordinary list by any standard, and three of them - Henry, Van Persie and Auba - all won the Premier League Golden Boot while at Arsenal.
Where Wenger consistently struggled was at centre-back and goalkeeper. He was putting out defensive lineups like this against prime Barcelona (Messi, Neymar, Suarez) and Bayern Munich (Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski) in back-to-back Champions League knockouts in 2016 and 2017:
Ospina
Bellerin – Mustafi – Koscielny – Monreal
Arteta would rather quit football than field a defence like that in a big game. His best signings - and the players he’s most clearly developed - are overwhelmingly on the defensive side of the ball - Gabriel, Raya, Timber, Calafiori, White, Rice, Merino, MLS.
Even his captain, voice on the field and No.10 - Martin Odegaard - leads the press out of possession, doesn't lose the ball ever with bad touches or misplaced passess, demands the ball in tight spaces, and maintains attacking possessions without turnovers (no hero balls ala Bruno Fernandes). That's why he plays every week.
We’re never going to be a “liquid football” side that’s easy on the eye under Arteta. What you do get instead is a suffocating defensive and out of possession structure that wins big games and keeps you consistently in title races.
"We’re never going to be a “liquid football” side that’s easy on the eye under Arteta."
Odd, because we seemed to be in 22/23 before he had a full-blown meltdown after losing at home to City in the title run in and since then it's been boring, ultra pragmatic, horseshoe football. He still has PTSD from it.
He's a cowardly, risk-averse manager that kills all the creative sparks in this team.
primarily not a confidence issue, it seems, and more a matter of attacking play wherewithal, or the lack thereof... just look at commonality of the poor away games versus pool,sunderland, villa, chelsea, and yesterday... from lack of attack prowess /ambition, loss of MF control, retreat to defend dear life of a slim lead, misuse or non use of subs etc all feature prominently... ended up with just 5 points from 15!
these aren't the most frustrating tbh... say, while attacking the opposition box, and instead of pinning them down with waves of probing, etc, out of the blue, we just retreat and end up with Raya having the ball after 2, 3 "safe" passes!! wtf? All of a sudden, opposition floods MF and before you'd blink, we're pinned in OUR half instead, ffs... who came up with this retard "control", "safe" possession BS?
In yesterday's game, we lost the ball numerous times progressing upfield AFTER conpleted the "process" of a million passes around our own box... So what's the difference if we take the ball upfield quicker, and possibly lose the ball?? Got turned over either way but at least we reduce some heart in mouth moments near own box!! This phenomenon happened throughout the match...
Our performances in recent weeks are frankly substandard.
I think that our defence is not the same in absence of Gabriel. We have conceded some silly goals in recent games in his absence. That has created a 'fear factor' in the team, which is why
we overplay from the back.
The attack is also struggling at the moment. Odegaard has become "toothless" in last 2 seasons. He may be "busy", but in my view completely unproductive. That was painfully obvious
in second half yesterday.
Gyokeres is not in my view a top class EPL Striker. He lacks the technique, guile and mobility. I
don't see a 20 goal a season striker on current evidence.
I think we have outgrown and evolved past Odegaard
This is no different from how we outgrew Ramsdale, Zinchenko and Tierney.
Odegaard really won’t make the pass Merino makes to Eze in the NLD to open scoring, he would have recycled the sequence to start again. His strength lies in possession, keeping it and quickly regaining it.
Yesterday, he was constantly slowing down play to keep up, some would call that ‘setting the tempo’ but I see it differently.
The most obvious woe was Odegaard delaying an obvious, simple forward pass to Gyokeres in 2H , when we're kinda 3 on 2, and sent him out wide when eventually did it... favorable angle to run in& shoot completely gone ... this contrast to the great thru ball Saliba made for Gyokeres !
btw, Odegaard likes putting loft balls into the box that are so ineffective and, yesterday, got cut out all 3 times, no pace to begin with...
Funny that. I thought he was one of our better performers in the 2nd half. He was involved in passing it to Rice for that Trossard chance, he was the one who cut it back for the Zubimendi shot, he created an opening where Saka and Timber got in the way of each other, I remember a driving run where he played a slicing pass to timber where he should have had a better cross as well.
People need to realize, our technical players aren't really the real problem. And it is down to how we are instructed to move the ball.
Yesterday. In the second half, Trossard and Saka should have scored and Zubimendi hit the post. My main concern is if those chances were created against us 1 or 2 go in. That's the disappointment of Yesterday's scoreline. Its always very nervy when it's 1 nil hence why it was difficult to enjoy the game. As good as Trossard has been, this is the second time he should have scored from a similar position the 1st one being against Newcastle both in tight games. Its frustrating, hence the feeling that we are not playing well due to not taking our chances. Three takeable chances Yesterday and we fluffed our lines. Its not the creation of chances that was the issue yesterday, taking them was the problem.
The difference with the Invincible drawing those games and the current team is you saw Viera and co. trying to win the game, taking risks, creating chances. Current team is more concerned about holding on to the ball and hoping the opponents gift us a chance
Wrong. Everton did not gift us those three chances in the second half, we created them ourselves through brilliant attacking play but couldn't finish our dinner. Therein the problem lies.
In the NFL Arteta would be the defensive coach. He's obviously great at that end of the pitch, just not at the other where it also must be said that he faces week in, week out low blocks so much so that he should've figured out how to deal with them by now. It's such a weird thing in some ways that he just couldn't deal with great creators/attackers even those in decline like Ozil and Auba if indeed Auba was just at that moment. They might as well have been from different universes to him.
It's apparent though that the fine margins/control at all costs play that he favours has caught up with us even if we've squeaked a couple of wins on the bounce now. We've got the bloody Mancs in our rear vision mirror and I fear that this extremely cautious play just isn't going to be enough. It's just too easy for 1 nils to become a draws through a bit of bad luck or one inspired play by the opposition
The problem with Arsenal is that, they don't know they bought a Gyokeres-they think they have a Haaland.
Last season, due to injuries Arsenal finished the season strikerless which, many still belueve, cost Arsenal a major trophy. This made everybody in the world of football call for a natiral #9 at Arsenal by all means. Late last summer, Viktor Gyokeres finally arrivef from Sporting FC. There has been growing high expectations regardless the poor Swede didn't even have a pre-season with his new team.
For me, the Arsenal team is yet to understand Gyokeres and Gyokeres in yet to understand the team. The players have got to figure out when, how and where Viktor wants the ball. The have to understand how Vikto likes to deal with each kind of ball and which suits him most. Viktor has to understand the players, their capabilities in terms of locating the striker, how the players like to play and all that. There must be cohesion and blend otherwise Gyokeres will continue to be frustrated.
Gyokeres is not Haaland, and even Haaland misses chances in each game he plays. However, the level of understanding between the City players is telepathic which makes Haalan even a deadlier beast.
Pedro rightly raised the issue of confidence tidayn It is sad that the situation is pounting toward declining confidence. It looks to me as if the players and fans exoected Gyojeres to outscore or match Haaland so there is frustration because this is not happening. That is why we are talking about Kai, Merino and Jesus even when Gyokeres is around. Where were Kai, Jesus and Merino last season,or the last three seasons, when Arsenal were finishing the season as runner up? Where were they? How many of them ever scored 20 goals per season, or managed 15 goals by December?
I think Arsenal are being too impatient. Unfortunately, Arsenal may hurriedly bench Gyokeres for Kai or Jesus which may not yield the right outcome.
Mikel has to sustain his faith in Gyokeres, even if it means playing him with either of Kai or Jesus in a game. If you bench Gyokeres you will permanently deflate his confidence and that would be suicidal for Arsenal. The manager must work a way out - Arsenal must find the formula that helps Gyokeres finds his lethal boots in England.
The performance of Arsenal in their last two games against Wolves and Everton has been far from enciuraging except the undeserved results. In fact, even the Chelsea draw looked undeserved to me. However, when I take a look at any team that ever won anything big, I see that most of them experienced such moments of luck even when they practically never deserved it. Luck or good fortune comes in different ways. If Arsenal have been unlucky with injuries, they have not been as much unlucky with the reasults (besides the Aston Villa game). And, compared to last season or two when it appeared PGMOL had colluded with VAR and referees against Arsenal, officiating decisions haven't gone as much against Arsenal so far. Let us hope that remains to be the case up to May 2026.
Odegaard has produced 1 assist all season which is not good enough to play for Arsenal. He had two good seasons in 22/23 and 23/24 but since last season he is not good enough to play for this team. It is not surprising to see team struggling to produce goals from open play since he came back to the team. We started the season in similar vain but some Gabriel set piece goals saved us. Players like Martinelli, Jesus and Odegaard are no longer enablers. The faster Arteta fixes these issues the better if not this will be another one which will be remembered as what could have been ones.
I’m sure that Saka having taken a lot of penalties against Pickford in England training played into it. It’ll be interesting to see who takes the next one. I have more confidence in Gyokeres consistently converting penalties than Saka, but I’m not convinced Saka has given them up.
We are a Serie A team with a serie A number 9
Anyone going to Park Theatre tonight? I still have the spare ticket if anyone is interested - would be nice to see it used but not looking for any return on it (maybe a beer!)
A win is a win and some will say that's all that counts. But, did the team play with any confidence at all? Does this outfit look like they can stay ahead of City until May? I now fear the worst, but naturally hope we can get over the line. My concern is that Arteta will not allow this team to be more realxed in their play, irrespective of who's in the line up.Thinking that the return of Gabriel and the hardly prolific Havertz will cure all ills is simply being naive and hopeful. For some time now, we've not taken advantage of being ahead and then capitalised. Last season, after scoring, we'd continually go backwards and sideways, fail to get another goal and then concede an equaliser late in the game to draw- has anything changed? Ok, we won 1-0, but as we showed against Sunderland and Villa, you can't always be comfortable that way and stay intact- it's far too hazardous to think we can always hold such a narrow lead as in recent weeks, the last 10/15 minutes of games have been nerve-racking. Even yesterday, against a poor Everton team missing three of their best players, we score and then sit back- why? The eternal backwards and sideways passing, even when in advanced positions, is mind boggling. How to beat the perpetual low block? Has anyone tried passing forward and quicker, or running at the defence- only Saka has licence to do that and by the time he gets the ball, he's invariably outnumbered.Our atatck was toothless yesterday- not only Gyokeres, but Trossard- what did he do? Has he beaten a full back this season? As I have said before, if he does not score or assist, which is not every game, he offers nothing.
Yes, even commentator mentioned Arteta bitching about them lol
That said, it's a probability game. We produced 3 chances and missed... so create more chances and shooting opportunities. All ratios... check out the top scorer table and look at the #shots,%on target and %conversion... our players are way behind
Have you not noticed Arteta bemoaning Martinelli, Saka and Trossard's missed chances. These were not 50/50 chances, they were clear cut as day.
We take 2 of those three chances the story is different. This is not on Arteta the criticism should be towards Trossard and Saka
We didn't score and sit back. Trossard and Saka should have scored 100% and Zubimendi hit the most. Off the three Zubimendi's was probably the most difficult as he had a defender sliding in but Trossard and Saka i can't condone. This Narrative of sitting back is not always true. Make a point buddy but be objective rather than click bait
If Gyok wasn't working out, Manager could have brought on Merino, our in form forward. Gabi Jesus is all swagger with generally no actual end product but he does create chaos.
He can't finish, when having a sustained spell in the side, falls over all the time seeking a foul or penalty and continually wanders offside.
He flatters to deceive and does not come with any long term guarantees of fitness or dependability
He’s not even to strong enough to cope with the rough hacking defenders issue out now.
nevertheless we need him to be fit for the season. Chaos can be useful - he will be gone by next season and hopefully we will invest in a new and up and coming CF who will gradually oust Kai and Gyok
Jesus is a busted flush.
My big-picture take on our attacking issues is that, for the first time since the early 1990s under George Graham, Arsenal have a fundamentally defensively minded manager, and that’s going to take some adjusting to.
For all the valid criticisms of Wenger, his talent identification in attacking areas - especially at striker - was arguably a huge reason why he’s one of the most successful managers in the history of English football.
He signed Anelka, Henry, Kanu, Van Persie, Sánchez, Giroud and Aubameyang. That’s an extraordinary list by any standard, and three of them - Henry, Van Persie and Auba - all won the Premier League Golden Boot while at Arsenal.
Where Wenger consistently struggled was at centre-back and goalkeeper. He was putting out defensive lineups like this against prime Barcelona (Messi, Neymar, Suarez) and Bayern Munich (Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski) in back-to-back Champions League knockouts in 2016 and 2017:
Ospina
Bellerin – Mustafi – Koscielny – Monreal
Arteta would rather quit football than field a defence like that in a big game. His best signings - and the players he’s most clearly developed - are overwhelmingly on the defensive side of the ball - Gabriel, Raya, Timber, Calafiori, White, Rice, Merino, MLS.
Even his captain, voice on the field and No.10 - Martin Odegaard - leads the press out of possession, doesn't lose the ball ever with bad touches or misplaced passess, demands the ball in tight spaces, and maintains attacking possessions without turnovers (no hero balls ala Bruno Fernandes). That's why he plays every week.
We’re never going to be a “liquid football” side that’s easy on the eye under Arteta. What you do get instead is a suffocating defensive and out of possession structure that wins big games and keeps you consistently in title races.
"We’re never going to be a “liquid football” side that’s easy on the eye under Arteta."
Odd, because we seemed to be in 22/23 before he had a full-blown meltdown after losing at home to City in the title run in and since then it's been boring, ultra pragmatic, horseshoe football. He still has PTSD from it.
He's a cowardly, risk-averse manager that kills all the creative sparks in this team.
primarily not a confidence issue, it seems, and more a matter of attacking play wherewithal, or the lack thereof... just look at commonality of the poor away games versus pool,sunderland, villa, chelsea, and yesterday... from lack of attack prowess /ambition, loss of MF control, retreat to defend dear life of a slim lead, misuse or non use of subs etc all feature prominently... ended up with just 5 points from 15!
these aren't the most frustrating tbh... say, while attacking the opposition box, and instead of pinning them down with waves of probing, etc, out of the blue, we just retreat and end up with Raya having the ball after 2, 3 "safe" passes!! wtf? All of a sudden, opposition floods MF and before you'd blink, we're pinned in OUR half instead, ffs... who came up with this retard "control", "safe" possession BS?
In yesterday's game, we lost the ball numerous times progressing upfield AFTER conpleted the "process" of a million passes around our own box... So what's the difference if we take the ball upfield quicker, and possibly lose the ball?? Got turned over either way but at least we reduce some heart in mouth moments near own box!! This phenomenon happened throughout the match...
Our performances in recent weeks are frankly substandard.
I think that our defence is not the same in absence of Gabriel. We have conceded some silly goals in recent games in his absence. That has created a 'fear factor' in the team, which is why
we overplay from the back.
The attack is also struggling at the moment. Odegaard has become "toothless" in last 2 seasons. He may be "busy", but in my view completely unproductive. That was painfully obvious
in second half yesterday.
Gyokeres is not in my view a top class EPL Striker. He lacks the technique, guile and mobility. I
don't see a 20 goal a season striker on current evidence.
I think we have outgrown and evolved past Odegaard
This is no different from how we outgrew Ramsdale, Zinchenko and Tierney.
Odegaard really won’t make the pass Merino makes to Eze in the NLD to open scoring, he would have recycled the sequence to start again. His strength lies in possession, keeping it and quickly regaining it.
Yesterday, he was constantly slowing down play to keep up, some would call that ‘setting the tempo’ but I see it differently.
The most obvious woe was Odegaard delaying an obvious, simple forward pass to Gyokeres in 2H , when we're kinda 3 on 2, and sent him out wide when eventually did it... favorable angle to run in& shoot completely gone ... this contrast to the great thru ball Saliba made for Gyokeres !
btw, Odegaard likes putting loft balls into the box that are so ineffective and, yesterday, got cut out all 3 times, no pace to begin with...
Funny that. I thought he was one of our better performers in the 2nd half. He was involved in passing it to Rice for that Trossard chance, he was the one who cut it back for the Zubimendi shot, he created an opening where Saka and Timber got in the way of each other, I remember a driving run where he played a slicing pass to timber where he should have had a better cross as well.
People need to realize, our technical players aren't really the real problem. And it is down to how we are instructed to move the ball.
Arteta is not a risk averse manager
His problem is that he takes far too many risks in the wrong area of the field.
Your heart is in your mouth when you see the risks we take in passing g out from the back, how many passes whizz within inches of the pressing player.
In the attacking phase we don’t take risks, especially when it’s Odegaard in the middle.
Arteta ball is based on winning by dominating possession, not winning by scoring to kill off a game.
Gyok is good enough for Arsenal
He’s just amplifying and exposing the fault lines we all knew existed with Arteta ball.
If Havertz or Jesus are as good as people chant, then they would have won stuff for us, and with us.
So he is risk averse anytime we cross the half-way line then?!
Yesterday. In the second half, Trossard and Saka should have scored and Zubimendi hit the post. My main concern is if those chances were created against us 1 or 2 go in. That's the disappointment of Yesterday's scoreline. Its always very nervy when it's 1 nil hence why it was difficult to enjoy the game. As good as Trossard has been, this is the second time he should have scored from a similar position the 1st one being against Newcastle both in tight games. Its frustrating, hence the feeling that we are not playing well due to not taking our chances. Three takeable chances Yesterday and we fluffed our lines. Its not the creation of chances that was the issue yesterday, taking them was the problem.
The difference with the Invincible drawing those games and the current team is you saw Viera and co. trying to win the game, taking risks, creating chances. Current team is more concerned about holding on to the ball and hoping the opponents gift us a chance
Wrong. Everton did not gift us those three chances in the second half, we created them ourselves through brilliant attacking play but couldn't finish our dinner. Therein the problem lies.
In the NFL Arteta would be the defensive coach. He's obviously great at that end of the pitch, just not at the other where it also must be said that he faces week in, week out low blocks so much so that he should've figured out how to deal with them by now. It's such a weird thing in some ways that he just couldn't deal with great creators/attackers even those in decline like Ozil and Auba if indeed Auba was just at that moment. They might as well have been from different universes to him.
It's apparent though that the fine margins/control at all costs play that he favours has caught up with us even if we've squeaked a couple of wins on the bounce now. We've got the bloody Mancs in our rear vision mirror and I fear that this extremely cautious play just isn't going to be enough. It's just too easy for 1 nils to become a draws through a bit of bad luck or one inspired play by the opposition
The problem with Arsenal is that, they don't know they bought a Gyokeres-they think they have a Haaland.
Last season, due to injuries Arsenal finished the season strikerless which, many still belueve, cost Arsenal a major trophy. This made everybody in the world of football call for a natiral #9 at Arsenal by all means. Late last summer, Viktor Gyokeres finally arrivef from Sporting FC. There has been growing high expectations regardless the poor Swede didn't even have a pre-season with his new team.
For me, the Arsenal team is yet to understand Gyokeres and Gyokeres in yet to understand the team. The players have got to figure out when, how and where Viktor wants the ball. The have to understand how Vikto likes to deal with each kind of ball and which suits him most. Viktor has to understand the players, their capabilities in terms of locating the striker, how the players like to play and all that. There must be cohesion and blend otherwise Gyokeres will continue to be frustrated.
Gyokeres is not Haaland, and even Haaland misses chances in each game he plays. However, the level of understanding between the City players is telepathic which makes Haalan even a deadlier beast.
Pedro rightly raised the issue of confidence tidayn It is sad that the situation is pounting toward declining confidence. It looks to me as if the players and fans exoected Gyojeres to outscore or match Haaland so there is frustration because this is not happening. That is why we are talking about Kai, Merino and Jesus even when Gyokeres is around. Where were Kai, Jesus and Merino last season,or the last three seasons, when Arsenal were finishing the season as runner up? Where were they? How many of them ever scored 20 goals per season, or managed 15 goals by December?
I think Arsenal are being too impatient. Unfortunately, Arsenal may hurriedly bench Gyokeres for Kai or Jesus which may not yield the right outcome.
Mikel has to sustain his faith in Gyokeres, even if it means playing him with either of Kai or Jesus in a game. If you bench Gyokeres you will permanently deflate his confidence and that would be suicidal for Arsenal. The manager must work a way out - Arsenal must find the formula that helps Gyokeres finds his lethal boots in England.
The performance of Arsenal in their last two games against Wolves and Everton has been far from enciuraging except the undeserved results. In fact, even the Chelsea draw looked undeserved to me. However, when I take a look at any team that ever won anything big, I see that most of them experienced such moments of luck even when they practically never deserved it. Luck or good fortune comes in different ways. If Arsenal have been unlucky with injuries, they have not been as much unlucky with the reasults (besides the Aston Villa game). And, compared to last season or two when it appeared PGMOL had colluded with VAR and referees against Arsenal, officiating decisions haven't gone as much against Arsenal so far. Let us hope that remains to be the case up to May 2026.
Odegaard has produced 1 assist all season which is not good enough to play for Arsenal. He had two good seasons in 22/23 and 23/24 but since last season he is not good enough to play for this team. It is not surprising to see team struggling to produce goals from open play since he came back to the team. We started the season in similar vain but some Gabriel set piece goals saved us. Players like Martinelli, Jesus and Odegaard are no longer enablers. The faster Arteta fixes these issues the better if not this will be another one which will be remembered as what could have been ones.
Havertz ‘sympathy’ pen vs Bournemouth happened at 2:0, a world of difference from taking one vs Everton at 0:0.
I never rated Goykeres ( raps can attest) but he’s living off absolute scraps out there, so the issue is definitely deeper than just him.
I’m sure that Saka having taken a lot of penalties against Pickford in England training played into it. It’ll be interesting to see who takes the next one. I have more confidence in Gyokeres consistently converting penalties than Saka, but I’m not convinced Saka has given them up.
Leeds a better attacking force than us at the moment ☹️☹️☹️